The BlackEdge project

[Folknology]

@BigEd suggested I made a post about the BlackEdge project to inform and solicit feedback..

What is it?
BlackEdge is the project name for a new set of OpenSource FPGA development boards based arround Lattice's ECP5 family of chips. This like BlackIce before represents open hardware to complement opensource Symbiflow toolchain for this new family based around @daveshah trellis documenting the ECP5 bitstream.

Why ECP5
I believe the ECP5 range provides new feature price points beyond the Ice40 family, here are some highlights:

• Up to 85K LUTs compare this to just 8K with Ice40
• Built in block memory 3.7Mbits compared to just 128Kbits for ice40
• Up to 156 Multipliers
• IO gearing to support high speed DDR RAM and LVDS
• Higher speed fabric and more PLL/DLLs

What features will BE have
Although exact features are still in the air, I expect at least 2 initial configurations a 12K and a 45K.

• Both will have DDR Ram in 10s of megabytes range more on the 45K than 12K.
• Both will have QSPI flash in 10s of megabits range, again more on the 45K than the 12k
• Both will have a 32 bit co-processor to enable realtime re-programming similar to the stm32 on BlackIce
• Both will have access to ADC likely via the co-pro
• Both will have dedicated high speed inputs and outputs aimed at digital video and cameras
• Optional high speed USB2.0 HS is being considered for 45K
• SDCard and USB2.0 FS on both 12K and 45k
• An interesting set of LEDs and a few tactile buttons
• More IOs than you can shake a stick at!
• A new modular construction that makes it much easier to use in your own projects.

So please let me know your thoughts...

[lawrie]

Will they have an HDMI connector or an easy way to add HDMI?

Will they have 32 megabytes of RAM to enable them to run Linux, like the one David Shah has tweeted about?

Are you dropping the external SRAM in favour of DDR RAM?

Will they be bootable from the flash memory or will being programmed from the co-processor be the only option?

Are you dropping or keeping the Arduino and Raspberry Pi connectors?

I am interested in the modular construction. I have been using the TinyFPGA BX more than my BlackIce II lately, as, while it has a lot less capability than BlackIce, it is easier to build into projects that use custom PCBs like the audio synthesizer and LCD games console I have been working on. The TinyFPGA EX that will also use the ECP5 looks interesting. It will be good to see how your board and Luke's are differentiated and how they differ from other boards based on the ECP5.

[Folknology]

Hi @lawrie

Will they have an HDMI connector or an easy way to add HDMI?

Yes HDMI is planned although output resolution is limited

Will they have 32 megabytes of RAM to enable them to run Linux, like the one David Shah has tweeted about?

Yes certainly with the 45K not sure if the 12K will have that much..

Are you dropping the external SRAM in favour of DDR RAM?

Yes for extra capacity, don't forget the ECP 5 has internal blocks of fast RAM

Will they be bootable from the flash memory or will being programmed from the co-processor be the only option?

Both options will be available as standard

Are you dropping or keeping the Arduino and Raspberry Pi connectors?

I need to explain the new modularity, the answer is it depends on options..

I am interested in the modular construction. I have been using the TinyFPGA BX more than my BlackIce II lately, as, while it has a lot less capability than BlackIce, it is easier to build into projects that use custom PCBs like the audio synthesizer and LCD games console I have been working on. The TinyFPGA EX that will also use the ECP5 looks interesting. It will be good to see how your board and Luke's are differentiated and how they differ from other boards based on the ECP5.

Well the biggest difference is the number of IOs (BE will have many more than Tiny BX or EX) and the number of dedicated connections, like HDMI,USB Cameras is much more comprehensive..

[Folknology]

Here is an early layout example of the 45K to give you an idea

It's about half credit card sized with 2 * 50 1.27mm double row connectors on it's base to mate it with standard myStorm carrier boards or your own design.

[lawrie]

Will they be bootable from the flash memory or will being programmed from the co-processor be the only option?

Both options will be available as standard

My question was a bit ambiguous. I meant will it be bootable directly from the flash memory, e.g. by SB_WARMBOOT, or only by use of the co-processor?

Part of the reason I ask, is that I have designs running on the TinyFPGA that use the multi-boot capability via SB_WARMBOOT and I was wondering if I would be able to do the same on this device.

A related question is whether the flash memory is available directly from the FPGA rather than just via the co-processor So for example, will I be able to use versions of PicoSoC that run code from the flash memory?

[daveshah]

Unfortunately ECP5 multiboot is considerably inferior to that of the iCE40. The FPGA has no self-reset capability - this is fudged in the TinyFPGA Ex by connecting PROGRAMN which triggers a reconfig to a FPGA output. Likewise there is no image selection as in the iCE40, although you can have multiple images in flash it will loop through them in sequence when you reconfigure it. So you would have to cycle through all the images before the one you want - although this isn't really a problem when you only have two images anyway.

[Folknology]

A related question is whether the flash memory is available directly from the FPGA rather than just via the co-processor So for example, will I be able to use versions of PicoSoC that run code from the flash memory?

The Flash is connected directly to the ECP5 so it can use it as ROM in Picosoc like applications

In addition to what David has spelled out regarding differences of WARMBOOT ECP5 vs Ice40 because we have a co-processor there are a number of alternatives. The firmware for the co-pro will be much more sophisticated than that the BlackIce version as we want to be able to use it to debug the ECP5, we could also provide a soft warm boot primitive if required to help overcome the differences between Ice40 and ECP5 boot features..

[lawrie]

On the TinyFPGA BX, I have a games console menu. The BX does a power-on boot to its USB bootloader, which then does an SB_WARMBOOT to the user image, in this case my game menu, which uses a version of PicoSoC. That reads an image from the SD card writes it to a third slot in the flash memory and uses SB_WARMBOOT to boot to that. So three images are in use. I changed the BX multiboot configuration to support that. It sounds as if I will need to do that a different way on the ECP5.

[lawrie]

Are there any Pmod connectors on the board or are they all via the carrier board?

And does it have USB host capability. So, for example, will I be able to connect a USB keyboard, mouse or games controller?

[Folknology]

There might be a number of ways to achieve this that are probably worthy of there own thread. For example the default boot image would likely be much more sophisticated than a usb bootloader, it could be a picosoc based design with basic wishbone peripherals (including SDCard support), it could be even more complex like Linux!

[Folknology]

The BlackEdge boards will come mounted on a development carrier including many Pmods along with other easy access connectors TBD..

[Folknology]

And does it have USB host capability. So, for example, will I be able to connect a USB keyboard, mouse or games controller?

Yes it will have host capability basic USB2.0 FS on 12K and on the 45K also ULPI USB2.0 HS

[lawrie]

So, is the interface for connecting camera, USB? Or will there be other ways to connect cameras such as CSI, as used on the Raspberry Pi.

And are the USB connectors, USB C?

[Folknology]

Camera connection will be via CSI primarily and support for RPi cameras will be included

[Folknology]

There are several USB2.0 connectors similar to BlackIce on the 12K and 45K boards. If we later do an 85K board USB3.0 is a possibility but it becomes a toss up between that or PCIe and the jury is still out on that...

[Folknology]

We are also considering the possibility of a USB3.0 carrier board BTW

[lawrie]

The boards sound wonderful. It is hard to think what I won't be able to do with them.

[daveshah]

In theory both 2x USB 3.0 (or, theoretically 1x USB 3.2) and PCIe x2 at the same would be possible with the 4-SERDES packages such as caBGA381)

[daveshah]

A USB 3.0 carrier board would not use the SERDES, I presume, but a interface chip such as the FT60x or CYUSB301x series, which would also be considerably easier to work with.

[Folknology]

A USB 3.0 carrier board would not use the SERDES, I presume, but a interface chip such as the FT60x or CYUSB301x series, which would also be considerably easier to work with.

Yes an external USB3 chip with parallel interface, we could also deal with the USBC Power requirements