Ads blackice MX on icestudio

Edferoca 2019-10-22 21:32:40 UTC #1

hello, I am trying to put the blackice mx in the icestudio tool, I would like to know if the card is serial or FTDI based.
Amy hello?

Aclassifier 2019-10-23 10:40:06 UTC #2

I guess this is interesting for me too?

I am not certain how you guys develop, do you use Icestudio, or just some editor (like the Atom; alone or with Apio plugin), Apio alone or just single-line command-based? Or something not in my list?

lawrie 2019-10-23 11:03:57 UTC #3

The board is compatible with the Blackice II in the way that uploads bitstreams. If uses an STM32 co-processor, not an FTDI chip, so it is what icestudio calls "Serial", although I am not sure what you mean by that.

You can use apio with the board by calling it a blackice-ii

See the Getting Started instructions - https://github.com/folknology/IceCore/wiki/IceCore-Getting-Started

Folknology 2019-10-23 11:04:55 UTC #4

For now use the BlackIce II board setting as the communication/programming (over USB-CDC-device) is the same. However you will need to use your own or BlackIce PCF files (pinouts) as these are different.I do hope to get this updated with the IS folks to more directly support BlackIce Mx (IceCore)..

lawrie 2019-10-23 11:09:52 UTC #5

I have not seen much use of icestudio with the Blackice boards, or much use of Atom, as there are no instructions for setting up Atom.

Some users use apio from the command line.

There seem to be a lot of Linux and Mac OSX users, who use make files.

Some Windows users use Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL).. Some use VirtualBox Linux VMs. Some use apio.

Aclassifier 2019-10-23 11:29:31 UTC #6

So for us who have no board yet, the newest BlackIce Mx is it. Also with Icestudio, because that pinout list will arrive. I assume it's not only naming, but also some semantics associated with each pin. Not for beginners like me..

Folknology 2019-10-23 11:32:05 UTC #7

One should generate application specific PCF files which only contain what you need. The BlackIceMX PCF file is for illustration only so you know how the pins map out. However IceStudio comes with some simple examples like blink etc that use a pre-generated PCF file (in this case incorrect for BlackIce Mx).

Aclassifier 2019-10-23 11:34:15 UTC #8

First point: why not Icestudio?

Second point: @Elminster said it Can Yosys etc. run on macOS Catalina which is 64-bit only? that "There is also an apio add on for Atom editor." Do we still need a procedure for setting up Atom usage?

Folknology 2019-10-23 11:37:29 UTC #9

Be careful with the Atom based IDE, many have experienced issues with the install on different OS's (things may have changed). Atom/IDE support is probably beyond the scope of this thread, maybe even our forum!

Aclassifier 2019-10-23 11:38:09 UTC #10

So there are no pins in the PCF file with hidden semantics? (Sorry, I havent' looked in one yet). "A low pin driving a LED" is just what it says.

Folknology 2019-10-23 11:41:36 UTC #11

Well consider the comments in the BlackIce Mx PCF as hints really. Remember most FPGA pins can be anything, but beware some maybe wired to specific components on the board such as pullups, chips, leds, buttons etc, might be worth checking the IceCore schematic.

BTW Some are actually dual purpose likes 2 leds sharing pins with buttons.

Aclassifier 2019-10-23 11:49:33 UTC #12

It says IceCore and is dated in May. Is it generic for BlackIce Mx?
It should be, since it contains an ICE40HX4K..?

Folknology 2019-10-23 11:54:14 UTC #13

BlackIce Mx is composed of a core (IceCore) and a carrier (BlackIce Mx), these were build and designed to the BlackEdge standard.

BTW 'BlackIce Mx' is commonly used to refer to the combination of these parts together which is a little confusing..

lawrie 2019-10-23 11:55:13 UTC #14

I tried icestudio briefly a while ago. I can't remember whether it was on the Blackice II or TinyFPGA BX board, or both.

Most of the projects I work on are things like retro computers, soft processors, SoCs, oscilloscopes, logic analysers, etc., and they are too complex to be done with a visual editor.

When I used icestudio, I did not like the way it generated verilog identifiers that could not easily be tracked back to the GUI source. I don't know if that has changed. The tool seemed good for learning about simple digital circuits, but not for projects of any complexity. A lot of my projects are ports of existing cores written in verilog or translated from VHDL. It would not be easy to use icestudio for any of those.

Also, I am increasingly using higher-level languages like SpinalHDL and migen.

Other people, who want to implement fairly simple projects, and are not keen on using programming languages, may well find icestudio useful. It is very good that such an open source tool exists.

Aclassifier 2019-10-23 12:04:40 UTC #15

BlackIce Mx is composed of a core (IceCore) and a carrier (BlackIce Mx), these were build and designed to the BlackEdge standard.

BTW 'BlackIce Mx' is commonly used to refer to the combination of these parts together which is a little confusing..

I see it now when it's been pointed at, in BlackEdge. Yes, I was/is rather confused. Thanks for clarifying.

lawrie 2019-10-23 12:08:01 UTC #16

I have used Atom on Windows with the TinyFPGA BX board and the apio plug-in. It is quite good for for fairly simple projects, and instructions to set it up on just native Windows would not be too hard. I might consider adding it to my ebook.
One of the reasons I am not keen on using apio, is the lack of support for nextpnr.

Aclassifier 2019-10-23 12:10:43 UTC #17

Thanks! I am keen on using programming languages and keen on using IDEs rather than command line. (I remember edit 23 from Intel Intellec system in 1979. Line 23. I got burnt forever.) And makefiles with tabs and not spaces (may have changed). I like them inside an IDE and saved as who knows.

Sorry, @Edferoca . Maybe I will start another thread for this. Suggestion of a title?

lawrie 2019-10-23 12:13:01 UTC #18

And Blackedge is sometimes used to refer to the combination that includes the future ECP5 core, which is also confusing.

Elminster 2019-10-23 12:32:30 UTC #19

I use Atom 100% of the time. But on the Mac the apio upload does not work, so I revert to the command line makefile to upload.

In fact what I do for each project is, create a Makefile that will with do the complete make and upload using nextpnr, or just upload the bit stream created with arachnepnr out of apio.

On linux the apio upload on Atom works. I tend to therefore use Atom end to end on Linux, unless I want to use nextpnr which apio doesnt use, and I use the precreate makefile mentioned earlier.

I use similar work arounds with icestudio but I use that more for interest value rather than trying to write code in it. If apio on mac upload work and it had blackice mx pcf in it, I might use it more as would mean less manual stuff.

lawrie 2019-10-23 12:32:50 UTC #20

If you want a discussion on using IDEs with the Blackice Mx board, perhaps start a thread with a title like "Using an IDE for Blackice Mx development".